A few beginner questions - any help appreciated

[Manuel]

Hi Everyone,

I am considering walking el camino Frances this August, and not knowing a lot of the details I have a few general questions I was hoping to get help with.

I'm 27, fairly fit, and I love crazy adventures. Based on my past experiences with hikng and trekking I know I can walk 40-50 km/day with around 30-40 lbs, for say, 4-5 days straight, then maybe taking a day break, or a short distance next two days and start again - although I've never tested it for that long of course. So with shorter distances and/or lighter weight and a LOT of will power, I think it can be done in about 20 days. I'd like to take 30 days just in case anyway.

I'm trying to figure out whether I should carry a light tent, food, gas stove, etc, and take it slow, or go with the survival approach, with a superlight backpack just enough to carry the necessary water for the day and some food. The problem is I have no idea how the amenities are distributed along the way, so I can properly plan the stages.

Also, I'm trying to cut the costs a lot so I can do it this year and not have to wait until I've saved a lot more - I am a student, so budget still matters a lot. Whcih way of doing it do you guys think it will be the cheapest? Fewer days (i.e. light pack, very long hikes per day/night) or the shorter heavier, tent and gas stove days.

What sort of wheather should I expect daytime/nightime? Is it allowed/reasonably safe (as in no muggers, etc) to walk at night? What's the highest degree of wilderness that one would come accross? would Iberian wolves be an issue?

I know I'm probably asking too general questions, so even if just a guide as to where to look for these things would be great.

Thanks!

[Covey]

August will be warm to hot. Lose the tent and camping kit and use albergues and make sure you have a max of 10kgs on your back including water.

Forget what you have done in the past, aim for 25-30kms a day and 10kgs on your back. The Camino Frances is walking every day for 30-40 days and that drains your body reserves of energy. Forget about walking at night.

[Manuel]

Thanks for the reply. I was originally thinking the distance was around 500 Km, not 800Km, so I based the 20 day min estimate on that, especially after I read that a 60 yr old walked the camino portugues in 12 days, which seemed like enough motivation to try to go all out. I would love to take even 50 days to stop at towns and such, but the issue is I can only take at most 35 days for the hole trip, flying from Canada and coming back. I guess it's not possible to do it then. Is the terrain very rugged, and the altitude a challenge? My estimates where also based on flat, low altitute terrain.

It seems form the other posts that the Albergues fill out too soon, so what are the options without a tent if that happens? Is there another time of the year where that wouldn't be an issue?

Regarding walking at night, or in the very early dawn (while still dark), what is the main concern?

Thanks again.

[grayland]

Covey has it exactly right. You would miss the essence of the Camino by doing the long haul scheme.
If you extend the daily distance you will miss the companionship of seeing the same group for a period of time.

[Covey]

Manuel..........You see quite a number who try walking in the dark, mostly those who leave the albergue at 5am(ish) with head torches on and you often meet them again some time during the mornings when they catch you up having got hopelessly lost in the dark having missed one of the trail markers.

The Camino trail is marked by a variety of methods, but mostly by a splodge of yellow paint on the side of a building, on a stone or on the road. Miss one marker and you are generally in trouble!! In some places the trail out of town is down the pavement of the main road out of town which is nice and easy, but in other places the track threads its way through alley ways and paths behind houses and it is very easy to miss the way.

There is no convention as to how far apart the markers are, so in some places you will pick up a marker every 100m and in other places it might be 1km, so you never really know if you are on the right trail until you see the next marker, and if you don't see one, you still do not know if you are on the right track, or if you should have turned right 2kms back!! When you are walking in daylight, then you can usually see pilgrims in the distance and behind you and can make a better judgment.

The Camino is not a race, and there are no prizes for arriving first! The Covey Plan for walking is to leave the albergue at first light when you can see the track surface and finish around 2pm which is time enough to walk 30kms, stop for breaks and coffee a few times, and enjoy the company of your companions on the Way.

30% of the Camino Frances is walking on roads which is easy because the surface is smooth and you don't have to worry about where to put your feet, but the rest ranges from good flat track, to really rocky track where you have to watch exactly where you place each footstep. On the rough track, one wrong step and you will end up with a sprained ankle or worse, and there are no injuries on the Camino which get better the more you walk!!!

The majority of those who have to drop out and go home do so because of stress injuries to their joints caused because they are trying to walk longer distances than their body can cope with. The Camino is not just a tough weekends walking, but day after day after day and it is the cumulative effect which is the real killer for your joints.

Camping is a problem. You have the weight issue of all the camping kit, and all land in Spain is owned by someone and you need their permission to use their land. Unless you speak fluent Spanish you will never find out whose land it is!! Fires and flame are not permitted in the summer months because of the forest fire risks. Leave the tent behind and go with the flow.

If you are worried about time, then start in Burgos, walk to Santiago and then on to Finesterre. Fly from Canada to Madrid and then either train or coach to Burgos. Getting to St Jean from Madrid is a pain!

[geraldkelly]

Hi Manuel

I laughed when I saw you asking about wolves in Spain but actually, it's an interesting question. The first link below shows that their habitat covers much of the western end of the Camino. That said, I've never heard of anybody encountering a wolf on the Camino, but you never know! Especially if you're camping out.

Iberian wolf - Wolves in Spain
Wolves – Iberianature - A guide to Spain: environment, geography, nature, landscape, climate, culture, history, rural tourism and travel

[Manuel]

@Covey:
thanks a lot for the comprehensive reply. This makes a lot of sense to me now.
Your point about prolonged joint stress is well taken. I think I was simply conisdering muscle fitness and the ability to push them beyond one would normally do. But I wouldn't like to run into joint issues at all, and like I said before, I've never been hiking for that long. Also, I see why walking at night can be an issue even with headlights and all, at least for the first-time caminoer

I think all and all I'll plan it with more time hopefully next year, then hopefully I wouldn't be in the busiest/hottest time, and I won't have to rush it.

Thanks again!

@geraldkelly:
I remmeber seeing documentaries on the European wolf, and a good chunk talked about Iberian wolves, so I figured I'd look it up. Probably not the only thing in my post that sounded a bit crazy anyway lol
Funny you point out that article, because when I searched for Iberian Wolf that's the one that I was looking at!

[Leslie]

Hi Manuel,

a friend of mine walked the Camino Frances in 27 days and seemed to enjoy himself fine - less than that and I think you are really pushing it.

But to fit with your time frame just start somewhere along the trail, or as would be my preference start in St Jean and stop and go home whne your time is done. Walking the Camino is not like any other long distance walk, even though many approach it as if it is - but it does seem to leave something in people's heart.

[Manuel]

Hi Leslie,

That's an encouraging number of days. Thanks for the feedback. I also like your suggestion of starting aiming for the whole camino, but ending it before if necessary.

I think the main reason I want to walk it is for the "change of heart" you mentioned. Somehow, a couple of similar experiences I've had (not necessarily walking for so long but cycling or other trekking/scrambling trips) seem to really have left an imprint in my character. There's something transformative about difficult long-term physical and mental challenges in the outdoors.

It seems August is too hot and busy a time for caminoing. Is there a time of the year that would be ideal?

I might be able to tweek things around next year to do it during a more convenient time.

Thanks again!

[Leslie]

I have only walked during July, Aug, and Sep. I found that between Pamplona and Sarra was fine.

Depending on when you start the route from Roncesvalles to Pamplona can be very busy - best to miss weekends at the start of Aug as this is the start of Spanish national holidays, and I found myself starting from Roncesvalles once during this and the noise drove me a bit nuts - but then again I don't like a lot of people around me.

The first time I walked the Camino I knew nothing about it or the idea of pilgrimage. I appeared to infuriate a lot of people when I first started this site by saying I did the Camino Frances for a long cheap holiday - and that is why I first went. I was a student, (mature), and I had little money and lots of time.

It was nothing like I had imagined and it left something on me. And I went back the next year.

I loved the Camino, but I don't come across like that while there. Anna my fiancee, who I met on the Camino, says I was the grumpiest pilgrims she ever met. There must have been something though...

I like the idea of just having the time and a set amount of money and just seeing what happens. Whatever you decide I wish you all the best.

[WanderingHiggins]

I am arriving in Santander on the 30th of June and leaving Santiago on the 4th of August, that leaves me just over 33 days to do the camino.... I am thinking of getting a bus immediately to St. Jean PP and starting there but am worried that I won't be leaving myself enough time. I am not a particularly experienced walker and wouldn't like to bite off more than I can chew! How long does the camino Frances take? I am a relatively fit 25 year old.

[Leslie]

The standard maps show the Camino Frances as 31 days. However it is always a good idea to have a rest day or two.

I can understand the wish to walk the whole route in one go, but I really don't think it matters that much. If you really want the Compostela just miss a few days with a very short bus ride at some point and walk the last 100km from Sarra.

Why worry? I can understand disappointment at not having more time, but worry is not something that goes together in my head with the Camino.

[Covey]

Actually, the "plan" handed out by the Pilgrim Office in St Jean is split into 34 days and I would always suggest taking a day off in Burgos and Leon so that would be 36 days.

Leslie's friend who did the Camino Frances in 27 days was walking an average of 30kms a day, every day presumably without a break!

Those who are young and very fit could keep up an average of 30kms a day, but remember that an average includes days where maybe 40kms were needed and other days where 25kms was the plan.

A couple of years ago I met (very briefly!!) a young lady from the UK who needed to average 40kms a day to meet the time she had available. Fortunately she ran marathons for a hobby, but 40 kms a day every day is extreme and means walking 10-12 hours a day, every day and where is the enjoyment in that or the time to absorb the beauty around you.

A major part of the enjoyment people get from walking the Way is meeting pilgrims from all over the world, and talking to pilgrims from wildly different backgrounds and beliefs.

If you are intent on a high speed Camino, then you will miss a lot of what the Camino has to offer.

[Leslie]

and I still wind that friend up by asking him what sections he got the bus for?

[WanderingHiggins]

Thanks for the advice! I wholeheartedly agree with what was said about being able to enjoy the camino experience for what it is without hindering it by being tied to a very tight deadline... what I propose is to perhaps start in st. jean pp anyway (santander to pamplona by bus and then pamplon to st. jean pp by I'm not really sure what) and then taking a bus at some stage to compensate for my lack of time! It would be a terrible shame to miss out on the essence of the camino! I love meeting new people from different cultures and I am one of the most talkative people I know and since I am Irish that is really saying a lot! any ideas on how to get from pamplona to st. jean late at night?

[geraldkelly]

Pamplona to St Jean, your only option is a taxi.

If I was going from Santander to St Jean I'd go: Santander - San Sebastian - Irun/Hendaye - Bayonne - St Jean.

However, if you arrive late in Santander you mightn't make it in the same day. Besides, I hear Santander is beautiful, so probably worth a few hours to look around, as is San Sebastian.

[Daisy]

Hi Manual,

I am also leaving from Canada this fall Sept 10 - Oct 10, flying from Montreal at 11:25 pm arriving in Paris at 12:10 (Charles de Gaulle) then catching another flight from CDG at 14:00 and arriving in Biarritz at 15:25. Which would give me enough time to take the train to SJPP but I have opted to hire a transportation company that will meet me at the airport and take me directly to my B&B in SJPP. I'm flying with Air Transat and the cost was pretty good a little over $800. return. My return flight is from Santiago to Madrid then Madrid to Montreal on October 10.
Hope this helps you with your flight plans.

[Lipka149]

Hi Manuel -

My own "heart" experience with the Camino was one of understanding rather than change, but the experience of following the Way is something I encourage you to do.

Given your reason for walking the Camino, and your openess to transformative experiences, I might suggest starting at any point, spending whatever time you have, traveling whatever distance you wish, and allowing the Camino to work its Way on you. Don't worry about structure, don't worry about timing, don't worry about tweeking. Just do it and see what happens.

I suspect that the value attributed to difficult long term physical and mental challenges in the outdoors will mature into priceless meaningful inter-personal relationships revolving around shared experience. If one can take THAT back into the "real world", then the imprint on one's character is going to be truly transformative !

Go for it, brother. The world needs men like you.

[Pam Miller]

How do I travel from Pamplona to St Jean? Express Bourricot has just replied it is not possible on the day we are arriving on the 27th.

[geraldkelly]

Hi Pam

You really only have two options.

1. A taxi: the price you get depends a bit on the time of day. You're arriving on a Monday which is a day many taxi drivers take off so that might work against you. But if you approach a taxi rank with lots of bored looking taxi drivers one of them will take you. I would start the bidding at €50. You might get it for €70 or €80. It's about 70km.
2. Bus to Irun/Hendaye, train to Bayonne, train to St Jean. If you're coming from Madrid I'd get a train straight to Irun and forget about Pamplona.

Hope that helps!
Ger

[Covey]

Pam...........Why not start your Camino in Pamplona? Getting to St Jean from Pamplona is complicated and expensive and having got to St Jean you merely walk back along the same route to Pamplona!!

The only thing you will miss is the first day from St Jean to Roncesvalles. If the weather is good the views from the top of the hills are spectacular, but in my four trips "over the top" the weather has only been good in summer once! The last time I spent the whole day in mist, drizzle and low cloud and could not see more than 10m!

[geraldkelly]

Hi Again

I just got some new information which I've posted on a new thread:
New Bus Service from Pamplona to St Jean Pied de Port

Ger