Terrain and Sleeping Under the Stars

[pbanta17]

To anyone who has walked the El Camino Frances...

A few questions...first, I want so badly to walk the El Camino Frances. I've been wanting this for over 5 years. It is time. I will be traveling from the United States this September.

Terrain - I have been reading the forum and starting to get a little concerned the more I read through the threads posted. I read about bridges over gorges and walking back down steep hills of gravel. Are there bridges over gorges the entire El Camino Frances? Are they sturdy, wobbly, old, etc.? This scares me. These hills that are so steep....how steep is this? Is there a book out there that describes the conditions of these steep hills or gorges?

Sleeping - Instead of sleeping in the shelters, are we allowed to sleep just outside the shelter in our sleeping bag? What are the pros and cons of doing this? Is it safe? I've been reading about bedbugs and filthy shelters. Arghhh!

Starting point - Since I have a certain number of days I can spend on walking the El Camino Frances, I think I need to start in Pamplona. Does anyone have pros / cons for not starting at the beginning?

Thoughts/comments....

Thank you, Patti

[BHinSanDiego]

Hi Patty, just curious, where are you getting your information? Bridges over gorges? As can be expected with a 790 km or 500 mile path you are going to walk over bridges at some point, but there are no large gorges along the Camino (at least none that I remember), the bridges cross over rivers and the rivers except for Portomarin are somewhat small, the bridges are of stone construction and very very stable and the bridge in Portomarin is well constructed and meets the standards one would expect of any country. Again with a walk this long you'll be going up and down hills, some of the decents can be a difficult, walking poles come in handy for these and I highly recommend them for the stability and ease on the knees on the decents, the downhill between Rabanal and Molinaeca is the one I rememberr as being the most difficult with the combination of steepness and rocks.

As far as sleeping outside at the alburgues, sometimes they simply don't have the grounds or property for this, and I think I've read on this board it may not be allowed. As far as cleaniness as far as alburgues are concerned, you get what you pay for, since you're concerned about this I recommend staying in the private alburges, they are newer and are clean, I'm not saying the church and municipal alburgues are dirty but they are older and upkeep may not be to standards you desire. Not sure why you'd desire to sleep outside on the ground and have the possiblity of little critters get into your sleeping bag instead of sleeping inside.

How many days do you have to walk, by starting in Pamplona you're only saving 3 maybe 4 days over starting in St Jean Pied du Port or 2 days from starting in Roncevalles. I walked from St Jean last year in 33 days which is very doable, if you need to save time you can always take a bus in some areas, after all it's your Camino and you can do it any way you please as far as this is concerned, some people skip part of the Meseta between Burgos and Leon, and since you're concerned about the downhill you may want to think about busing it between Astorga and Molinaseca, I say Astorga simply because it's the last town of size that I would think it would be easy to catch a bus, whereas I don't think Rabanal may be as easy, but others may have more info on that since I never looked into buses.

I also recommend going to a bookstore and picking up a guidebook on the Camino, there are several and each has their strong and weak points.

[HuskyNerd]

Hi Patti ~

BH is right about gorges and bridges. There's just no danger on any camino bridges, with the possible exception of a somewhat slender pedestrian bridge at Portomarin. However, there's a perfectly acceptable car bridge a few meters away if you get spooked. Many camino bridges have stood literally for centuries and are solid as anything you'll ever walk on.

I do know of some people who slept outside at different times along the way I (just returned last month from my third camino). There are a few albergues (I'm thinking of the municipal at Los Arcos, for instance, or the albergue at Calzadilla de la Cueza) where there's a grassy spot outside where a sleeping bag on a mat would work as well as any albergue bunk bed. You'd likely be discouraged from doing this in cities, and even in the countryside you'll probably not want to be alone.

I recommend the Brierley guidebook most recent edition. I haven't seen as good a guide in English and the topographical maps are excellent. And yes, BH is also right that there are some serious downhills that will take caution.

Buen camino!

[Covey]

pbanta17........The beginning is where ever you choose to start. The "original" route from France was traditionally thought to have started at the Notre Damm Cathedral in Paris and there was another route which went to Rome and then on to Jerusalem.

The modern day Camino Frances starts in St Jean and about 10kms up the hill you cross over in to Spain! so you would spend a couple of hours in France and the next 30+ days in Spain walking to Santiago. St Jean is not the easiest place to get to for the long haul Pilgrims so many would find it easier to fly in to Madrid and then take the train/coach to Pamplona, Burgos, Leon or any one of the many towns along the Spanish section of the Camino, and start from there.

It is your Camino and you walk it your way. You start from where ever you want, when you want and walk at whatever speed you are comfortable with. There is only one "rule" and that is you must carry a Pilgrim Passport which is stamped at every albergue you stay at and which you present to the Pilgrim Office in Santiago to obtain your Compostella.

[pbanta17]

Thank you everyone for the quick responses....I'm wondering now if I should be flying into Madrid instead of Pamplona. Especially, if this saves only 2-4 days. I did send for3-4 guidebooks. I need to look into the Brierley guidebook. I mainly speak English with minimal Spanish. Once I receive my guidebooks I'm going to sit down and go through everything.

I was getting my information from a few of the forum journals I've read and a few books "Fumbling" "I'm Off Then." I was considering sleeping outside because of the "bedbug" stories in the forum and how some of them are kind of unhealthy looking. I've just downloaded a list of all the hotels, hostels, refugios, albergues along the trail so I can become more familiar with where I'd forecase stopping along the way.

I have 30-ish days to walk the El Camino. If I leave Pennsylvania August 28th...arrive Spain on 29th, unwind, settle in, and start walking the morning of the 30th....35 days would put me at October 4th...I just need to be smart as I'm walking the journey to make sure I make my return flight to home.

Thanks again for the responses...much appreciated...and so excited about starting my walk.

Patti

[HuskyNerd]

Oops, I didn't mean to imply that Brierley is not in English. I should have said, "I feel it's the premier English-language guidebook."

Much as I enjoyed "Fumbling" and "I'm Off Then" (which I'm rereading right now) we should all remember that they are each only one person's perspective. There are dozens and dozens and dozens of albergues on the Camino Frances and they vary greatly in how well they're kept up. By his own account Hape Kerkeling took the bus and train a bunch and also stayed mostly in hotels. Plus, his book is based on experiences in 2001, when there were far fewer albergues. In contrast, John Brierley tours most all albergues and is on the road updating his guidebooks constantly. I'd suggest a careful study of his most recent guidebook, which will give you the most current info.

Bedbugs -- I finished my 3rd camino in 4 years last months and heard only 2 rumors of bedbugs over 42 days. I recommend you read Covey's advice on this Forum about bringing along a treated, fitted bedsheet. If you follow his advice you will have zero bedbug problems.

Not sure your flight arrangements from Pennsylvania to Pamplona, but other than $s I can't see any advantage to flying into Madrid rather than Pamplona. Given your time frame a Pamplona start makes perfect sense. Here's a website you can use to sketch out your daily itinerary if you like. You can also review the topography so you know a little better what you're getting into. http://www.godesalco.com/plan/frances

You're gonna have a great time. Relax and enjoy!

[Bill]

RE: The "original" route from France was traditionally thought to have started at the Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris...

Or more likely in Paris from the Tour Saint-Jacques

Saint-Jacques Tower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Jessica Krebs]

Hey Sandy, that link doesn't work.

[Leslie]

Hi Jessica,

the problem is not the link that Sandy put up but the way the other website handles cookies. When you go to that site use this url http://www.godesalco.com/plan/frances/ it - the website will serve you a 404 page not found error. Once that happens you will have a menu at the footer of the page and you can click on Camino Planner.

Or just go to the home page of the site and drill down. http://www.godesalco.com/

[paddy]

Hi,
I walked from St Jean last Sept as far as Logrono. There were no dangerous stretches, the walk to Roncevalles on Day1 is mostly uphill and the last few miles are downhill to the monastery. This is well worth visiting and the track is safe if taken steadily. If you are concerned about falling, take a stick and wear proper boots (to be recommended anyway) .I had no problems with the accommodation, I would not sleep outside, for a start it might rain at that time.When you get your Passport in the office in St Jean they will give you a map showing the hills en route.Brierley's book is good for advance planning.30/35 days is rquired for the whole route to Santiago.
Enjoy and good luck.

[HuskyNerd]

RE: The "original" route from France was traditionally thought to have started at the Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris...Or more likely in Paris from the Tour Saint-Jacques Saint-Jacques Tower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hi Bill ~

As a history buff I'd really appreciate any references you could supply for Paris being the traditional starting point. As I understand it, Notre Dame Cathedral wasn't built until the 12th century and Tours St. Jacques didn't appear until the 16th century, though the Camino Frances started as early as the 9th century. My own understanding was that the "official" starting point of the Camino was wherever a person lived. Any info you could supply would be great. Thanks!

[Bill]

The tower dates from the 16th, but I've certainly read (perhaps on the markers at the Tour St. Jacques itself?) that there has been a church on the site dedicated to St. James since the time of Charlemagne. Wikipedia confirms this in part, mentioning a church on the site since Charlemagne without naming the dedicatee.

I wasn't focusing on the "starting point" of Sandy's comment. For many people, Paris would have been the wrong way to travel to reach Santiago. The pilgrimage is defined by its end. The idea that it has a beginning other than where you are strikes me as peculiar. A pilgrimage starts when you leave home or perhaps when some other point you have in your head is reached, like the moment you land in Europe, or spend your first Euros, or cross into Spain, or get you head around what you're doing....

I think it's telling that, as far as I've read, indulgences have never required that any route be followed or distance covered. For RC Church purposes, the requirement was and is to visit the saint's tomb and do a variety of other things. A journey was assumed, easier for some, harder for others.

I think of the Tour St. Jacques' location as a "gathering point" from which pilgrims headed across the Seine and up the Rue St. Jacques and out of the city. But such gathering points were scattered across Europe, and a stopping point for some is a starting point for others. Vezelay, Le Puy, Conques, Toulouse, Cahors and how many more?

[Jessica Krebs]

Or just go to the home page of the site and drill down. http://www.godesalco.com/

Oh! Thanks! Thanks also to Sandy. These elevations profiles are amazing to say the least.