Toilets and showers and laundry! Oh my!

[mariana1114]

Hey all,

Getting my things together to walk my first camino this fall, and am finally starting to feel prepared. There is one thing in particular I have a question about though:

In my research I've stumbled upon a few blogs with accounts of co-ed bathrooms. Including tales of co-ed showers without curtains. I'm a young lady travelling alone, and although I'm more than willing to rough it, there are a few privacy issues I'm unwilling to compromise on - this is one of them. So I guess my question is this: is this truly a common thing to stumble upon? And if so would this be a good reason to carry a bathing suit on my walk? I haven't noticed swim trunks on any of the suggested packing lists. I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything here.

Also, as far as laundry facilities go. I'm probably going to want to carry my own soap right? Or is that something that would be available for purchase? That's another thing I've thought about maybe needing but haven't actually seen listed on many suggested packing lists.

Thanks in advance!
Mariana

[grayland]

not sure where you saw the co-ed showers without curtains...but I have not seen or heard of this anywhere on the Camino.
For the most part the showers are well closed in and private. Some albergues have some problems with having a private dry spot to get dressed but have never seen a situation where privacy was not available.
This is not something you should be worried about.
Maybe there are some albergues where there is a problem and someone can post where they are and you can avoid them.
Hopefully, some of the ladies will post and give you their experience with the shower/privacy issue.

[Irene Schmidt]

Yes, it's true: many bathrooms are co-ed and some shower stalls have NO DOORS. Some women dealt with this situation by hanging a lava lava across the opening. Most people didn't bother. I was so tired I didn't care either. One morning I walked into the bathroom to brush my teeth and run into an elderly peregrino stark naked shaving in front of the mirror, with everything hanging there for the world to see. Oh, well. I just looked the other way (kind of difficult, as I had to face the mirror as well to use the sink).

As to laundry soap, sometimes you find a bar by the laundry sink, but most of the times you don't. I carry a small piece of laundry soap (20 gr) and a twisted elastic cord in case the clothesline is full.

[Lipka149]

... tales of co-ed showers without curtains.

Mariana -

If in doubt, just check out the facilities before signing in, or ask at the front desk. (Hey Sandy ... how would you ask that in Spanish ?)

I did not see any curtain-less showers anywhere ...

I'm probably going to want to carry my own soap right?

This would be a good thing to do. Personal body soap, and shampoo for sure. Also suggest some laundry soap for the washing machines. I used the dry tablets (Punto-matic ... mejor precio por lavado ! ) and just crushed a little bit of one up for hand washing. Be sure to take a waterproof container for them. And cloths pins (or safety pins if you are weight conscious).

[HuskyNerd]

Hi Mariana ~

Congrats on your upcoming camino. You will have a great time and the shower facilities are a curiosity but not a problem even for us Americans who are a little more squeamish that our European counterparts. In my unofficial tally over 3 caminos I'd say the "normal" arrangement especially in large albergues is toilet/showers segregated by gender. In smaller and/or older albergues there are often shared toilet/shower facilities, but the showers almost always have a door. In a very, very few albergues the shared toilet/shower facilities have been seen to lack a door. Though I didn't stay in it myself, a German friend reports in his blog that such was the case at an albergue in Pedrouzo (O Pino) this June. Lack of a shower door is more often the case in same-sex bath facilities, for example the public albergue at Finisterre and a few others I can think of. The lack of privacy is not due to anyone's voyeurism, but is simply a maintenance/cost issue. If you're really worried about this, as Alan says you can inspect the baths or just ask at registration (In Spanish you could say "¿Hay una puerta en la ducha?")

As Irene mentions there are various levels of modesty in shared toilet/shower facilities. I regret that some men (for some reason older, pot-bellied men in particular) don't find it necessary to maintain their modesty while using the sink. I think these are the same men who parade around the sleeping areas in tiny underpants which, fittingly, are more than ample to cover their modest private parts. The rest of us just turn our eyes and assume these men are very tired from walking and in such a hurry to get to bed that they're taking a few shortcuts in their dressing sequence.

It's not just women who can be embarrassed by albergue life! On this year's Camino I had an awkward moment when I had to change my undershorts by my bunk (at Calzadilla de la Cueza, where the toilet/shower room is co-ed and the showers are too small and wet to change clothes in) and I couldn't convince the 50-ish non-English/Spanish/French speaking woman laying in the next bunk to close her eyes while momentarily I was bare skinned. She just smiled at me and winked. More often, though, people are diligently respectful of others' privacy and the feelings of discomfort are rare. As I say, this will not be a problem -- it just won't.

You could certainly bring a swimming suit because you might find yourself wanting to swim. Depending on weather (not sure when in the fall you're going) there are a few pools at various albergues and a few rivers where wading is nice.

Soap-wise I think simple (and lightweight) is best. I buy the smallest available bottle of liquid soap (body wash) which I then use for all purposes -- bathing, shampooing, and clothes-washing. I personally don't like bars of soap because they're messy when wet, and powdered laundry soap seems to be difficult to rinse out when hand-washing my clothes. In the occasional moment when a washing machine presents itself there is almost always dry laundry soap available, too, so a bottle of liquid soap is all I need. I could understand someone with a full head of hair wanting to also have shampoo, but that's not quite my situation.

Again, buen camino!

[Covey]

I always suggest that Da Ladies carry a Sarong. An eminently sensible piece of material which can act as a dress, shower curtain, bed sheet and head scarf if you lose your hat. Real men don't carry a sarong!!!

I solve the soap problem by just carrying liquid shower soap which does for the shower and is excellent for washing clothes and works well in cold water. Honey and Almond flavor does it for me!!

I do carry a packet of two laundry soap tablets just in case the washing machine works but there is no soap. I also carry a smallish net laundry bag with a zip closing. I usually use it to hold my toilet items, but if I share a load in a washing machine, I can put my stuff in the bag and avoid trying to work out which socks are mine!!. Many use the same brands of clothing especially Smartwool socks and this way I get my own socks back.

[Irene Schmidt]

Regarding soap for personal hygiene, I carry a piece of Aleppo soap (Savon d'Alep, Jabón de Alepo: google it), the oldest soap in the world. I have been using it for showering and washing my hair for a long time, and it leaves my hair soft and silky without the need for conditioner. It's fantastic and pretty cheap at Amazon. It's traditionally sold in 200 gr square bars; it's very dense, so 1/3 of a bar (about 70 gr) will last you the entire Camino (put it inside a mesh bag and let it hang to dry after showering to make it last longer). The ones with a higher laurel oil content double as an antiseptic too, good for disinfecting blisters and insect bites. In Syria they put it inside wardrobe drawers to repel moths. I wonder if it will keep bedbugs away from my head too...

It's biodegradable and has only 4 ingredients: olive oil, laurel oil, water and soda from sea water. No perfume.

[John Hussey]

Irene:
I also carried just a single bar of soup and used it for about everything-to wash my body in the shower, shampoo my hair (hair is cut very short), lather the face for shaving, and also each evening to wash my underwear and socks worn that day and sometimes the shirt and shorts. It worked great and cut down on the items I had to carry. The soap was manufactured in Spain, called La Toja, Magno, and the bar was black in color. But the Alepo soup you mentioned sounds as if it would be better, especially for shaving. Now, would you think it would work OK for hand washing clothes in the sink too?

[Covey]

It is probably best to avoid buying toiletries in the pharmacies as the stuff they sell are usually the upmarket brands and quite expensive.

The pharmacies are great for the items needed to repair the feet, but Compeed (blister plaster) is quite expensive as is Vaseline which most pharmacies sell in a tiny tube for about €4! An elasticated knee support bandage will cost you up to €50.

[Irene Schmidt]

Yes, John! You can use Aleppo Soap to handwash clothes, even in cold water. I don't do that during the Caminho to make the bar last longer, and carry a tiny piece of perfumed laundry soap (20 gr) for that purpose, as I like perfumed laundry, and the Aleppo is unscented. But the Aleppo Soap is great for shaving, they say, and it is fantastic for your skin and hair. I'ts very moisturizing, which in the dryness of the meseta is a Godsend. I buy the 25% laurel oil, which is very antiseptic.

The problem with liquid soap, IMHO, is that you are basically carrying water with a bit of soap in it. Too much dead weight.

[BHinSanDiego]

Covey beat me to it! I also suggest taking a sarong, the women I saw used it for a variety of things, most often going to and from the shower, but what struck me most was with it's versitility was it is practically weightless. As for soap for washing clothing I recommend getting "Camp Suds", you can get it at any camping supply store. If you go to the private alburgues they are usually nicer and newer with better facilities overall, they may cost a couple of Euros more, regarding the doors on the showers, I've often discribed them as restroom stalls with the door going all the way to the floor and the depth of the stall is usually about 10 feet, one thing they often lacked was a shelf or something to hang your clothes on or other items you bring in with you while in the shower to keep them dry.

[John Hussey]

Yes, John! You can use Aleppo Soap to handwash clothes, even in cold water. I don't do that during the Caminho to make the bar last longer, and carry a tiny piece of perfumed laundry soap (20 gr) for that purpose, as I like perfumed laundry, and the Aleppo is unscented. But the Aleppo Soap is great for shaving, they say, and it is fantastic for your skin and hair. I'ts very moisturizing, which in the dryness of the meseta is a Godsend. I buy the 25% laurel oil, which is very antiseptic.

The problem with liquid soap, IMHO, is that you are basically carrying water with a bit of soap in it. Too much dead weight.

Well, I ordered (from Spain, of all places) a 220 gr bar of the 30% to try. I don't know its size but I am hoping it is dense, dry and small in size. For backpacking, in order to reduce all the weight I could, I stopped taking any original containers of toiletries in my shaving kit. Instead, I purchased a selection of the small Nalgene containers and then insert items like tooth paste, under arm deodorant into the appropriate smaller and lighter container, thereby reducing shaving kit's size and weight. If I run out and buy something like toothpaste along The Way, I slice open the original container and refill my smaller one. You would be surprised at just how much dead air space exists in the containers of the items we buy, the manufacturer's tricky attempt to make the contents appear greater inside their packaging. I don't mind it sitting alongside my sink at home but I don't much care to carry it on my back. Every partial ounce adds up quickly.

I don't much care for the liquid soap items either as I found, for me, they were consumed at a much greater rate than the dry bars, and were larger in size and heavier in weight than the bars, too..

[CA_Pilgrim]

As Irene mentions there are various levels of modesty in shared toilet/shower facilities. I regret that some men (for some reason older, pot-bellied men in particular) don't find it necessary to maintain their modesty while using the sink. I think these are the same men who parade around the sleeping areas in tiny underpants which, fittingly, are more than ample to cover their modest private parts. The rest of us just turn our eyes and assume these men are very tired from walking and in such a hurry to get to bed that they're taking a few shortcuts in their dressing sequence.

Sounds like my gym!

But it does make me think of a qustion. I was thinking, why doesn't he just wrap a twoel around his waist? Then I got to thinking a towel can add a lot of weight. Then I remembered your packing list you posted elsewhere (thanks!). You mention a "Hiking Towel." Is this different than a regular bath towel?

[CA_Pilgrim]

The vision of the naked pot-bellied older man at the sink reminds me of my gym!

On a more serious topic, HuskyNerd, you mention in your packing list posted in another thread that you bring along a "Hiking Towel." I'm assuming this is different than a typical bath towel. Can you elaborate? I was thinking, why doesn't the guy just cover up? Maybe he can't if he doesn't have a bath towel.

[Irene Schmidt]

John, a 220 gr bar of the Aleppo soap is way too much (and too heavy). You can split that bar (with a knife you first submerge in hot water) and take only half of it, that's more than enough for the Camino.

[Leslie]

Hiking towels are more commonly called quick drying towels. One thing about them is that in general they are very small, a bit like a hand towel, though they dry your body okay and then dry out quickly. They are VERY much lighter than ordinarily towels and worth using instead of your normal house towel.

[HuskyNerd]

Yep, by any name a hiking towel is important to bring. They do make these towels in large sizes now, for example for us Americans at REI: REI MultiTowel Lite X Large Towel - 49" x 29.5" at REI.com. So now there's no excuse not to cover up!

[John Hussey]

John, a 220 gr bar of the Aleppo soap is way too much (and too heavy). You can split that bar (with a knife you first submerge in hot water) and take only half of it, that's more than enough for the Camino.

I am stuck (and more familiar with) our archaic British system of weights and measures and so have little idea what a 220 gr bar will look like till it gets here. Thanks for the hot knife tip, though! I'll likely use it

As for a towel, they are far to heavy to carry and are only a single use item. I would suggest taking an extra large silk scarf instead. It works wonders for your neck and head when its colder, head or neck band when it is hotter and every evening on the Camino to dry off with after showering, in lieu of a towel. It holds an amazing amount of water, weighs very little and dries in minutes after being wrung out. I have one I have had for many long years and is a nice, faded, unobtrusive olive drab color.

I suppose I qualify for being an older man however not pot bellied but I guess I could wrap the scarf around me were the need to arise.

[Irene Schmidt]

John, I carry a similar large thin silk scarf too, and coincidentally, it's dark green! But I use it mostly as a head and neck scarf proper, picnic towel, and to cover the pillowcase at night if the provided pillowcase looks iffy -- I'm considering treating it with permethrin next time around, as there have been reports this past week of A NEW OUTBREAK OF BEDBUGS IN GALICIA, EEEEK!!! I also carry a small hiking towel, which weighs very little, is highly absorbent, dries very quickly, can be used to wriggle your laundry on rainy days and I even use a corner of it to dab my sweaty face on a hot day. I don't feel silk to be very absorbent as it clings to your skin, and specially not substantial enough to dry your hair. I'm happy it works for you: one less thing to carry.

The 220 gr bar of soap is pretty chunky, you'll see. As a guide, a standard bar of commercial toilet soap weighs 90 grams.

Galicia bedbugs alarm here:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=1&theater

[John Hussey]

Irene, you are right. The silk scarf is nowhere near as absorbent as any towel but it does work to dry off or, perhaps, maybe rub off the wet droplets after the shower but weight is miniscule, and it is a multiple use item. But, for hair...my hair was once cropped short in my youth and i seem to have kept it that way ever since so drying it not an issue for me. So, neither is combing or brushing it, and i don't carry those items, either. I am still waiting for my soap you recommended. I found the small, normal size bar, lasted me about one half the Camino and two of them would be enough for a complete Camino using the same bar(s) daily for body, shampoo, clothes, shaving, so I likely willnot cut off much of your Aleppo bar. I originally went the liquid soap route, taking a bottle of some backpacking soap but I consumed it far to quickly to have been useful. Hard bars last and last!
Bed Bugs! I sure have little desire to bring any home so I bought a 24 ounce (739 ml) spray bottle of Sawyers Permethrin for my sleeping bag and pack. Now, if I knew the dimensions of the mattress bunks along the Camino, I'd seriously look for Covey's idea of a fitted sheet, spray it down well and take it, whatever it weighed. I still consider that about the best idea of all against those unwanted pests. Do you suppose the bed bug infestation is an affliction limited to the hotter months and not the colder ones? I hope so!

[grayland]

John..
I did take Covey's idea of the fitted sheet and bought a twin sheet as he posted. I am not leaving for another Camino until late March so won't have a chance to try it out. I am waiting to hear from Covey to see how it worked out. The weight of the sheet was the difficult part for me and finally found one that only weighed in at 8 oz.
Not sure if Covey in on the Camino now.

By the way...Sawyers does also offers a "soaking" kit that makes treating things like sheets, clothes, etc. much easier. It was developed for the military and is still in use by them. I use the soak method on these and then the spray on backpack, etc.

[John Hussey]

Grayland:
Fitted sheet size: I suppose it should be about our "Twin" size mattress. What size did you get? I guess my only choice, now that I think about it is....twin, 39" x 75", since it is our smaller size.

I do know about the soaking method but will most definitely not soak either my Feathered Friends down sleeping bag or McHale pack. Those will get sprayed. I want bother with spraying the clothes.

[grayland]

I just got the "standard" size and tried to get the one with the smallest "pocket" as the matresses in the albergues are not thick.
I would not "soak" a down sleeping bag...and it is not possible to soak a pack. The kit comes with a plastic sack/bag in which to soak the items. Really only used for things like sheets, sleeping sacks, clothes, etc.
You can have a look at REI.COM.

[Irene Schmidt]

John, indeed the summer months and September is when the chance of encountering "chinches" is at its highest, specially in Galicia, which gets the highest influx of pilgrims, but a friend has found them in a private hostal in La Rioja in February!

The soaking method as per the American military below, good for the fitted sheet and pillowcase (and my silk scarf/pillowcover). The solution proposed boils down to 0.5% (whereas for spraying it should be 1%):

Controlled Wicking - The ideal application (preferred method) is to follow the prescribed military procedure that maximizes protection and minimizes waste. The process is a controlled wicking process where a specific amount (dose) of permethrin is introduced to an individual garment under controlled conditions.
You will need:
a - pint measuring cup
b - 1 ounce measurer
c - several 2 gallon sealable plastic bags (e.g. Ziploc ™)
d - a bottle of 13.3% permethrin
e - water
f - clothing (Do not treat any under garments, treat outer garments only).
g - several large rubber bands
h - rubber gloves

Instructions: Wear rubber gloves when handling wet solution. Add 1 ounce of Perma-kill 13.3% Permethrin to measuring cup and top off with 15 ounces of clean water to make 1 pint. Roll garment to be treated tightly to a size that will fit into bag and secure roll with rubber bands. Place garment into the bag, add the mixed (1 pint) of permethrin solution and seal the bag while removing excess air. Put bag aside for 2 hours minimum to allow thorough wicking. Remove garment, unroll the garment to ensure entire garment is damp without dry spots, air dry, mark with treatment date (month/year) and store. If wicking is not complete, roll garment and return to bag.

This method has been tested and delivers protection within the following guideline - Properly completed, this procedure will impregnate the garment with a dosage of approximately 0.125-mg permethrin per square centimeter. The protection will last for the life of the garment, 50 detergent launderings, or 1 year, whichever comes first.

[EFDoucette]

Is there bed bug repellent spray available in Spain? There is absolutely nothing sold in Canada, all products banned about 6 years ago. Found some permethrin in a livestock store but also had some nasty chemicals included, so no good.
Thanks

[Irene Schmidt]

Au Vieux Campeur in France carries it, I believe they will ship to Canada, just don't know if customs in Canada will allow it to cross the border:

100 ml at 8%, dilute to 0.5% for soaking, 4% for spraying: http://www.auvieuxcampeur.fr/nos-pro...ge-tissus.html

100 ml in spray bottle at 4%: http://www.auvieuxcampeur.fr/nos-pro...v-tements.html

This one is also useful, but probably not as effective. You can also buy it in the aubergue L'Esprit du Chemin in SJPP: http://www.auvieuxcampeur.fr/nos-pro...s-de-lits.html. It has no permethrin in it.

As a side note, it has been reported that some strains of bedbugs have developed resistance to permethrin and are no longer vulnerable to it, probably on account of its excessive use. That might explain why it has been banned in Canada.

[grayland]

Or....if you are in the U.S., you can simply order the Sawyer kit from REI on line.
I have used it and it is simple with no measuring of anything. Just put in the supplied bag along with the liquid supplied.

[Irene Schmidt]

Or....if you are in the U.S., you can simply order the Sawyer kit from REI on line.
I have used it and it is simple with no measuring of anything. Just put in the supplied bag along with the liquid supplied.

... and I guess they'll ship to Canada.

[Covey]

I have just returned from Portugal and Spain and have to say that my treated fitted sheet and pillow case worked well.

My fitted sheet was a UK standard single fitted sheet and that fitted all the mattresses I came across in albergues, hostels and hotels.

Not one bite and the Permethrin treated sheet seemed to keep the mozzies away as well as it is supposed to. I also sprayed my pack inside and out, and treated my fleece.

Most albergues in Galecia (Spain) now issue a simple matress cover and pillow case, but these are NOT treated with anything, but are just for cleanliness.

[grayland]

Nice to have you back, Covy.
I will give the fitted sheet in the spring from Le Puy. Great idea.