Pack & Shoe Dilemma

[Neil]

Hi Covey

I'm a first time Camino aspirant and currently struggling with the two most important items of kit - boots and pack. After 2 weeks doing the rounds of outdoor stores in London, have not found a comfortable walking boot and getting frustrated. Are all hiking boots much less comfortable than day shoes? Is it normal that (with socks) you can find yourself looking at boots 2 sizes larger than day shoes/trainers? Which type of Salomon boot do you use?

Have received many recommendations for Osprey Altus packs. But 35L or 50L? Am planning a Sept walk for 2 weeks (from Porto), no sleeping bag. (Suspect 40-45L would be ideal.)

cheers, Neil (PS Great forum)

[Gazza]

Neil

45L pack should be ample, particularly with no sleeping bag.

I live in Oz and imported some UK socks that the forum had mentioned called 1000 mile socks. They are a double layer sock that took the moisture away from feet. Worked beautifully for me.

As for shoe sizing, it is quite normal for walking shoes/boots to be sizing bigger then normal. Need to allow for some movement of yr feet in the shoe for up & downhill. Also your feet will swell in the shoe due to the heat & pressure.

Good luck. Shoes & pack are the two most important things to get as right as you can

Buen Camino

[Covey]

Welcome to the Forum Neil.

I have carried my trusty Osprey Atmos 50L on four trips down the Camino Frances, and on 4th September, my pack and I set off again.

As Gazza states, if you are not carrying a full sleeping bag then a smaller bag will do, and the smaller pack acts as a restraint on the amount of kit you are likely to carry, but the 50L does it for me and I have the option of being able to carry a sleeping bag if needed. I only ever take a silk sleeping bag liner which packs in to its very small bag and takes up little space. I also have a dislike of having to hang bits on the outside of the pack. You see some folks looking like a Christmas tree with all the bits hanging on the outside of their packs. If its hanging outside, it can fall off and you may lose something vital.

Also very important is the actual weight of the pack itself. If you pick up a range of 45/50L packs, the difference in weights can be substantial and the Ospreys are amongst the lightest available, and happen to be comfortable.

Shoes/boots can be a problem as you have found out. You need to try them on in the store with the socks you intend to use, and you will find that 2 sizes above your normal size is usual. Some brands do not go up in half sizes, and two full sizes up might be too much and only one size up not enough.

Gazza is absolutely right in that your feet swell up somewhat on a full days walk in the heat, so I would err on the generous side.

The 1000 Mile socks which I use and suggested Gazza used are excellent and work for us. I used to use Smartwool which are excellent, but in July/August kept the feet a little too warm, so I switched to the 1000 Mile ones.

I used a pair of Salomon boots in the past, but one of the Gortex panels got ripped so they went in the bin. I bought a pair of Merrell Moab shoes and have been using them for training BUT although they were very comfortable I bought one size up as that felt best and two sizes were too loose (they only do full sizes) Once summer arrived and I was doing 20/25km training walks I found that after 10/15kms the toes of my left foot started to rub up against the toe of the shoe as they got hot and expanded, so they are now consigned to everyday wear and will not go near the Camino.

I replaced them with a pair of Salomon shoes with 3D Fit (whatever that is supposed to mean!) which are two sizes larger than my normal shoe size. Not as comfortable as the Merrells yet but with use and long training walks are beginning to wear in, and hopefully will last a few years.

Boots especially will feel hard and lumpy in the store when you try them on "out of the box", but the Salomon store I use state that if you have problems with fit you can return them and have another pair. The Salomon shoes were not as expensive as the boots, but the boots in August kept your feet warm.

Despite the above, I have seen pilgrims walking the Camino in plimsolls and trainers. A few wear the Teva type trail sandals all the time. I suspect that boots are essential in Spring when the weather is very unpredictable, but in June-October, shoes are fine.

[Neil]

Thanks Covey and Gazza.

Boots - settled on a pair of Scarpa Kailash that feel great so far (well, in the streets of London) - plenty of wiggle room but firm around the heels.

Pack - no joy yet. After a series of glowing endorsements from Camino veterans was all but settled on Osprey Atmos 50 or Exos 46. However, after 2 days doing the rounds of outdoor stores, all at sea again.

Been told that the shoulder straps on both these just dont sit flush around the contours of my shoulders as a good fit should. Tried several sizes but they continue to sit v slightly away from the back of my shoulders.

Was finally pushed towards the Osprey Talon 44, which I've been told sits as it should, flush against the shoulder contours. Cons - lacks the frame and ventilation systems of the others, more of a lightweight climbing pack apparently than a Camino stalwart. Was really hoping to settle on the Atmos 50!

Any thoughts on the Talon 44 as a Camino pack?

cheers, Neil

[Covey]

I would not take a pack which did not have a frame! My Atmos 50 is framed, and there is a 2" air gap between the pack and my back to allow for ventilation etc.

The Talon 44 is advertised as a "day pack" rather than a long distance hiking pack. Having the Talon "flush against the shoulder contours" means a sweat point where your back, shirt and pack are going to be constantly wet.

My Atmos has more straps to adjust how the pack sits on ones back than seems reasonable, but once sorted out, the pack is very comfortable to wear day after day.

Pack fitting is vital, and you need to think of it in two halves. Firstly the frame must sit on the hips and the belt must be tight so all the weight of the pack is carried on the hips, rather than the shoulders. The top of the frame should not be digging in to your shoulders and there should be little or no downward pressure on the shoulders from the shoulder straps. Ideally, you should be able to slide your hand under the straps at the top of the shoulder "with ease", and the top of the frame where the shoulder straps attach should be level with the top of your shoulders. The real aim of the shoulder straps is to stop the pack falling backwards, and NOT to take downward pressure from the weight of the pack.

YouTube - ospreypacks's Channel

Have a look (if you have not done so already!) at the advice video's on pack selection from Osprey or look up any of the other "serious" brands.

Having considered the frame, the "bag" is attached to the frame. The straps should be adjusted to ensure that the bag does not move around when you are walking, and the straps should be tightened once the bag is packed. Simples!!

[Gazza]

Covey

Wish I read this before my Camino. I had an old 75L pack that I had used in NZ carting 40Kg's but was too big a pack for this trek. So bought a pack from Kathmandu (Aussie/NZ mob)... was nowhere near as good. wanted to trade it in at Leon but the packs I was looking at were 400 Euro (600 Aussie) Just couldn't do it.

My biggest issue with the pack was the hip straps, they were flimsy & soft after about 3 days. Hiking stores are interesting things, you really have to do your own research as a lot of the employees do not understand what type of walking your doing & don't really know what their products are capable of.

Looking at going walking in Ireland (bottom of South) next year so about to start looking for a real pack

[Covey]

We have Kathmandu in the UK, but I have never been that impressed with the kit they sell here, and a lot of the packs they sell seem more suited to day trip or "Gap Year Students" rather than those who are going to walk up to 1000kms.

I often pop in to the various makers shops in Covent Garden in London to see whats new, but even there, the shop staff seem more retail staff rather than those who have actually done the kind of activities the kit was designed for.

One of the best shops I have been in is Camping Equipment, Climbing Gear & Outdoor Clothing, Taunton Leisure, Somerset These guys really know what they are doing and they sell serious kit for the walkers who do Dartmoor etc. but sadly, the really good shops tend to be near the major walking trails rather than the retail centres in the major cities.

Good packs are usually expensive, but as you have to use it for 40 consecutive days to carry all your kit, it is worth the effort to have a pack that is comfortable and light. I am amazed when looking at say 50L packs how the packs vary in empty weight. My Osprey Atmos 50L (now 4 years old and going strong!) weighs in at just over 1kg, but I have seen packs on the trail at anything up to 3.5kgs EMPTY. That is a lot of your 10kgs weight target to expend on just the pack!.

I was watching the YouTube Osprey clips last year and discovered what a couple of the loops were actually for! If you are buying a new pack, never buy mail order, but go in to various shops and have your back measured to get the right size. My Osprey comes in three different sizes depending on the length of your back. Get the wrong size and you will suffer the consequences!

[Loughlin]

Covey

When you say shoes are fine for June- Oct do you mean late June. Thinking of going last week in May. Would walking shoes be ok for the SJDPD start in late May? I have done from Ponferrada in June twice and found walking shoes fine.

[Covey]

Shoes would be fine in May really, but any earlier, and boots would be better.

[Loughlin]

Thanks for that Covey. Just concerned about ankles on the hills

[Covey]

Boots give better ankle support but are heavier than a walking shoe. If someone has ankle problems then stick to boots, but there are very few places along the Camino Frances where one would rather have boots than shoes in normal circumstances. What is important is that the footwear "breaths" so as the feet sweat, the moisture has somewhere to go. All leather boots can get very hot and the moisture has nowhere to go and the risk of blisters is much higher. Boots with Gortex panels are good, but in summer you need to brush the boots to get the dust out of the Gortex otherwise it clogs up and you are back to square one!

[Loughlin]

Thanks for advice Covey

[elaine_hulsman]

I am new to the forum. I will be on the Camino in June, 2011. Myself, along with 23 high school students and two teachers will be starting at Pedrfita do Cebreiro. What is the hike like, from this point on? Will be need over the ankle boots, or would sturdy hiking shoes be sufficient? The students may want to receive these as Christmas presents next month.

[Covey]

From Cebreiro to Santiago is about 20% road and the rest reasonably easy track, so sturdy hiking/walking shoes will be fine, unless anyone has a particular problem with weak ankles when they would be better off with boots.

[dbird10]

Cathy: welcome. My partner and I walked from Roncesvalles in 09, I am walking from Somport next month. We both used a Garmont dayhiker in 09 and they worked really well, they have alas changed their lasts and no longer fit me properly so this time I am using a Keen light hiker. I purchased the one that is gore tex lined and probably should not have as they will Probably be a bit hot. The point is you need the support of a hiking shoe but not a full on boot as the trail is not difficult and you will not be carrying a heavy load. As for a pack go with the smallest you can get with a good padded waist belt and a sternum strap. 20 - 25 L should be sufficient, if you buy one larger you will be tempted to fill it up. Due to your stature you will want a shorter than normal pack. In Canada here I purchase all my gear from mountain Equipment co-op, MEC.ca, their website will offer you excellent advice. Also be sure your pack has compression straps to bring your load in close to your back. There should be some space for airflow between your back and the pack. If there is not your back will sweat and be really uncomfortable and cold when you put your pack back on. You can overcome this to some degree by wearing T-shirts you can turn back to front after each break but it is better to have the air space. Finally I would recommend a light polypro liner sock inside a wool sock, the light sock takes the abrasion instead of the foot, far fewer blisters. enjoy.

Dave Bird

[grayland]

I am new to the forum. I will be on the Camino in June, 2011. Myself, along with 23 high school students and two teachers will be starting at Pedrfita do Cebreiro. What is the hike like, from this point on? Will be need over the ankle boots, or would sturdy hiking shoes be sufficient? The students may want to receive these as Christmas presents next month.

Since this is a bit old....Elaine may not respond...but I was trying to imagine how 26 people walking together in June would manage beds. They would pretty nearly fill up an albergue by themselves. It would be interesting to hear the plan.

[janemaryokeefe]

Hi!
I got a pair of Murray boots which gave good ankle support and were comfortable right from the get go. There are trails which have a lot of shale and going downhill is tricky, so it's important to have a good tread. I had a Canadian friend who wore regular sneakers and diabetic socks(she wasn't diabetic) and she didn't get one blister the whole hike.

[janemaryokeefe]

I second that pack and the liner socks inside a wool pair too. Make sure that you can access things in your pack from a side zipper, so you don't have to take everything out to get to something on the bottom.

[janemaryokeefe]

I would think that it could get tricky in some places. I found that most towns had more than one albergue and there are some that are huge. From Villafranco del Bierzo it's 30kms which I did in about 8 hours and I was 60 at the time. It's uphill, but the scenery is beautiful. I had a nice sunny day so it was great! The hostel at O Cebreiro has a wonderful panoramic view. The hike down from there is a wide road till you get down to Tricastel(sp). Stayed at Albergue de Oribio. Nice place overall! Next day hiked to Portomarain--23-24kms-----stayed at Ferromeriento--a large albergue--modern---nice town---huge municipal pool---really nice! Pedrouza has a nice Albergue Porto Santiago. The trail from there is tricky if you head early in the morning, because it's through the woods---you need a flashlight so you don't get lost---but once you get through the woods---it's a fair walk to Santiago, but not difficult. Fair warning----don't stay at the Albergue Acuria. It's got a strong smell of mold and I got bitten by bedbugs there. It's in a large concrete building on the lower level, not well lighted, bunks wall to wall, and 25 minutes from town. I'd have kept going if I'd known. I had friends who stayed in town and it wasn't that expensive--------especially after having gone through the bedbug experience----the last two days of my hike. Otherwise, don't miss the fumero. That's something to see. Don't be late for the service. Once the doors are closed,you can't get in.

[Covey]

Grayland..........I would not worry too much about their plan, but if I was walking behind them I would be worrying about MY plan!!

As you say, 26 beds is a lot out of those available in the next town if that is where you plan to stop, so time to speed up and get ahead of them!. In the summer you often get parties of Scouts and school kids walking sections of the Camino Frances but they tend now to use the private albergues because you can reserve a bed whereas you cannot reserve in advance in one of the "official" albergues.

[BHinSanDiego]

This was something I ran into in the latter part of my Camino last year, there was a group of students on the upper floor of the alburgue in Astorga. Not a pleasant experience, from that point on I encountered the parties of school kids, what I recommend from this is when checking into the alburgues ask when you arrive if there is a student group staying there, if so look for other accomodations.