Pack & Shoe Dilemma

[olaspain]

Hi, I am a new forum member and will be starting my first Camino at the beginning of October. I need to purchase a good pair of boots and pack which is quite daunting as I've never purchased either.

In regards to a pack, I have tried on a few packs so far with the most comfortable being from Macpac (Esprit). I am a female, 5'1, 65kg and have not done much walking before with a loaded pack so it has been quite difficult to determine what pack will be best for me as i'm not used to wearing one. The same goes for boots as i've only ever worn sneakers to walk in so am not sure how boots should feel.

Can anyone suggest any good brands for boots and packs? As mentioned I have tried a Macpac Esprit and have also heard good things about Osprey. As for boots a lot of people seem to wear Scarpa but i'm really not sure where to start.

Any advice would be most helpful.

Thanks,

Cathy

[walkmag]

Hi Cathy

I just did a search of general chat forum with Keyword as boots
got about 3 screen loads of results.

On my first ever trek in Nepal , I bought some horrible heavy boots as advised by an "EXPERT " ... But I now know , that I prefer A lighter option with soft flexible soles.
have a think about what you prefer...

cheers..walkmag

[Covey]

Osprey do a pack called Atmos (50ltr) which I have used on 3 trips down the Camino Frances. Light and comfortable.

My boots are from Salomon and they tend to do a full boot, a high trainer and a normal trainer/shoe in most designs. In October you only need the trainer styles as full boots are a bit overkill for the Camino Frances in October. I would use a full boot in Feb - June, but the lighter weight shoe is easier in the summer months.

[olaspain]

Thanks Covey, I am thinking that I would probably need something with decent ankle support as I very easily roll my left ankle (even on flat ground). The other thing I would be interested to know about the salomon high trainer would be how hard the soles are? I also have flat feet and wear othotics so need good cushioning too.

[olaspain]

Thanks Walkmag, I have had a look at the pages also and found it hard to narrow down to brands. It seems that there is a strong debate over boots, trainers and sandals as opposed to specific brands.

[walkmag]

Hi Cathy
I agree with Covery re Salomons they are my favourites also.
good luck

PS. If you have a YHA pass you can get 10% off at paddy pallin.

[Covey]

If you need ankle support then you need a boot, and the only way to buy is to find a specialist shop and try various brands.

One of the specialist shops in London has a nifty piece of equipment which measures your tread when walking on a treadmill. This checks the angle which your feet meets the surface when walking and where the pressure is and they fit the appropriate type of shoe/boot.

The problem is that you are trying on new boots, which are stiff and which will only adapt to your feet as you break the boots in. My son has a pair of North Face boots which he says are excellent, I like my Salomon's (boots) which have done three full Camino's and show hardly any sign of wear, but what suits my feet (I weigh in at 90kgs!) may not suit another person.

The modern boots are much lighter than the old leather boots I had and you hear people in the shops saying "they look nice" but looks are irrelevant, as the boots you choose have to carry you 800kms in 4-5 weeks.

Good luck!

[selleri]

HI. Here is a man's limited perspective to this good discussion. These are some of the critical factors for boot selection whether male or female I believe:

1. Weight: I think it goes without saying that the lighter the better. The two together should weigh no more than 1.5 kilos but be careful at weights given on web sites as different sizes of the same shoe will have different weights.

2. Ankle Support: for the camino (depending which sections you do), ankle support is a must (on the other hand I would guess that the ankle covering makes the foot a bit warmer, see next section)

3. Breathability: many people still swear by leather as it breathes well where as goretex and other high tech water resistant fibres get clogged with dust and can heat up. This is an area that requires expert advice and or personal preference. It is certain a leather boot properly moulded will probably have a better fir. I was in the Swiss army and walked with standard issue leather boots until we were allowed to buy are own boots and then I discovered comfortable leather boots from people like Meinl.

4. Waterresistance: you would like a boot that keeps your foot dry. Goretex should do this although I have read of some goretex boots not doing this so check forums before making a choice. leather boots do to but should be treated and or waxed to ensure seals are well covered

5. Width: I have a wide foot. Salmon did not make a wide enough boot for me and I went with North Face. A woman I walked with had Salomons and swore by them they were so good she said.

6. Soles: you end up feeling a lot of what you walk over, especially when you are on small stones, asphalt and other hard surfaces. Too hard a sole is not advised; too soft neither. get expert advice as there is no way to test this without buying the shoes

7. Cost: everyone says this is the most important piece of equipment (with the backpack). Best to make an investment as I know few people who walk the Camino who do not see themselves doing more walking in their lives or who thank the choice of a good boot.

Make sure to try your boots on with the same kind f socks you will wear on the Camino for a proper fit and make sure to try on both boots and walk in them. DO not take anything that does not feel like you are walking on air and comfortable as hell.

I think for backpacks a great pack is made by Deuter. Make sure you get one that has the mesh frame that puts space between your back and the pack to allow air to circulate. This keeps your back dry.

Regards, Ivan

[walkmag]

Thanks Ivan for all that great information..I am still looking for a pack will check out the Deuter.

[olaspain]

Thanks again Covey, I suppose from here I just need to get out and start trying things on. I am more confident that I at least know what I am talking about now.

[olaspain]

Hi Ivan, that is a great help. As mentioned to Covey I just need to get out into some specialist shops and continue looking armed with this new info.

[Judy vd Meulen]

I am a female (don't know many males named Judy!) and around your weight and height and I did 2 weeks of the Camino last fall. My experience was that the people I saw with feet problems, had the heavy stiff looking boots! I had Merrrll light hikers on and a Gregory made for women pack... loved them both.

[selleri]

I did 400km in a new pair of North Face boots. They are of the light variety (Dhaulagiri) with a flexible Vibram sole and ankle support. I had a little bit of irritation that almost lead to a blister but my main problem was just saw and tired feet. I could literally in the evenings stretch out my foot and feel the tendons running from my big toe over the ball of the foot and around the back of my heel. I figured it was just that I was not used to using the muscles and that I was overusing them walking 30km a day.

I chose the North Face in a hurry but like them and they suited a wide male foot. I am now wondering about the degree of comfort and support in the sole of the shoe. Has anyone else had experience with North Face boots. I was in the Swiss Mountain Infantry and has a pair of boots that I remember being supple like these but much more comfortable to walk in. As I continue my walking now at home I find the same level of discomfort emerging by my 6th kilometer. It is nothing serious but just not as comfortable as I would like and I know the shoes are the right length. Any feedback appreciated. Regards, Ivan

[Covey]

I used to be a soldier, and in the British Army in the 70's we had "Boots DMS" the DMS standing for Durable Molded Sole which was a fairly hard all in one rubber sole. Once broken in they were very comfortable, but did not offer much in the way of ankle support. The real ankle support came from wearing puttees which were a 100cm x 10cm strip of woven fabric which one wound tightly around the the ankle and top of the boot which gave excellent support, flexibility, and kept all the small stones out of the boot when walking.

My Salomon's have reasonable ankle support, but on loose surfaces, the small bits of stone one kicks up have a habit of getting down the top of the boot and working their way down between the sock and the sole. On loose surfaces it means that every hour or so you have to remove the boot and sock and find the irritation before it turns into a blister.

The Salomon's are reasonably light and have Gortex panels, but you have to give them a good brushing every couple of days to clear out the dust so they can breathe. If the panels become clogged, then your feet sweat and you end up with blisters.

[ken huocj]

My Keen Targhee have been most comfortable with fitted orthodics.

Now have the Targhee II with Gortex, Have to walk them in and hope they will work. Otherwise going back to what i am familiar with even though they are not waterproof.

[Covey]

I had a look at the Targhee website. What have you bought??

• Metatomical tri-density footbed
• Dual density compression molded EVA midsole
• 4mm multi directional lugs
• Non marking carbon rubber outsole
• Torsion stability ESS shank
• eVENT? breathable waterproof barrier
• S3 heel support structure

Sounds like you bought yourself a truck!!

Seriously though, they look pretty tough, though only time will tell if they suit you. In the UK they seem to be mainly available through mail order, and the problem there is getting the right size. Your foot size when wearing wool walking socks is a lot larger than for your dancing pumps! I use Superwool socks which tend to expand my foot size by 2 sizes UP!

When I bought my Salomons the deal was that I could take them back and swap for a new pair within 12 months if I found that the size sold to me by the dealer was not quite comfortable. Paying ?140 for boots felt a little safer knowing that I could change them once they were broken in!

[PabloElFlamenco]

It's really a discussion without end, reasonable enough when so much is at stake and the variables infinite.

Based upon my last boots, heavy leather Timberland klunkers, with Gore Tex, they leaked water as soon as that membrane was holed which, being an internal membrane, was pretty soon (at the toes).
I'm now running in a pair of (also heavy) leather Meindl "Bernina" boots with a wide forefoot (the new comfort series). Essential is that, when going downhill, the toes NEVER touch the fore bulkhead (that's shipping terminology for you!). That means, in my case, a full US size 11.5, EUR 46...meaning...weight, just over 2 kilos. I know some will consider that overkill, but these boots are rated a full "B" and I have to protect my feet (diabetes!) and I know from extensive running experience that my feet (and ankles!) are fragile. Adding to that the 8 or so kilos of backpack, spells out the term "stability".

For the backpack, I'm aiming at total and imperative lightweight. I just ordered a Deuter ACT Lite 40+10, which weighs 1.5 kilos and the size of which will force me to limit the volume (and weight) of what I carry. I'm trying to keep it down to around 6 kilos (that is very, very light!) plus water and food, so that would be something to the order of total 8 kilos.
The stuff I wear would add up to being something like 4 kilos (pockets filled).

So 82 + 8 + 4 = 94 kilos plus my age. Enough!
Pablo

[Covey]

2kgs weight for a pair of boots is pretty heavy!! You had better pray that it does not rain because when you pick up mud on the boots, you will really feel the weight!!

The problem is that there is a wide variety of footwear available, some of which is very hi-tec, but what really matters is the comfort, and that only comes when you have worn the boots/shoes in.

You see people walking in all kinds of footwear. A couple of years ago I met a guy on the way up from St Jean who was wearing a pair of old fashioned thin sole tennis shoes, and a pair of ordinary everyday socks. I smiled to myself and imagined the carnage he would experience on his feet from blisters, only to meet up with him along the way in various towns and eventually at Santiago and discover that he had not picked up a single blister along the way!! He said he never used boots or any of the hi-tec wonders which promise salvation on the road to Santiago, and for him that worked.

Most tend to wear boots, but in June through Sept walking shoes are fine, but I would use boots for the rest of the year.

I sometimes wonder how the ancient pilgrims ever made it to Santiago from all over Europe without Gortex, fancy footwear, silk sleeping bag liners, Satnav and all sorts of fancy and expensive gimmicks deemed necessary for the comfort of the present day pilgrim.

[mvhclancy]

Hi,

I have an osprey pack that I took on the Camino four years ago and will be taking it again this year. My wife has purchased a 50 ltr Osprey pack also and finds it to be very good.

Michael

Hi, I am a new forum member and will be starting my first Camino at the beginning of October. I need to purchase a good pair of boots and pack which is quite daunting as I've never purchased either.

In regards to a pack, I have tried on a few packs so far with the most comfortable being from Macpac (Esprit). I am a female, 5'1, 65kg and have not done much walking before with a loaded pack so it has been quite difficult to determine what pack will be best for me as i'm not used to wearing one. The same goes for boots as i've only ever worn sneakers to walk in so am not sure how boots should feel.

Can anyone suggest any good brands for boots and packs? As mentioned I have tried a Macpac Esprit and have also heard good things about Osprey. As for boots a lot of people seem to wear Scarpa but i'm really not sure where to start.

Any advice would be most helpful.

Thanks,

Cathy

[Covey]

I have used an Osprey Atmos 50 litre pack on three trips down the Camino Frances, and am very pleased with it.

One of the most useful bits is the mesh zip up pockets on either side of the waist belt. Very useful for holding bits and pieces such as sweets and my ciggies!

I wrap all the contents going in the pack in plastic food bags which I buy on a roll from a supermarket, so I don't have to bother with a rain cover for the pack. There is a large external pocket on either side of the pack which is large enough to take a 1.5L bottle of water and a set of external loops either side to hold walking poles when you don't need to use them.

Apart from the bottles of water and the walking poles, the 50L is large enough to take everything I need to carry for the 4-5 weeks inside the pack, and I don't have to attach anything else on the outside.

You see some walkers who look like a mobile Christmas tree because they have so many bits and pieces tied on to the outside of their packs. Easy to lose things that way if they fall off.

I probably should mention that I don't carry a sleeping bag!! I just use a silk sleeping bag liner which is bug treated and if you are walking the Camino Frances between June and Sept, it is all you really need. The sleeping bag liner is 10% the size of a sleeping bag and usually a lot cheaper to buy.

With a 50L pack, you will probably have to strap a sleeping bag on the outside of your pack.

[Lizz]

Hi Covey

How do you treat your sleep liner for bed bugs?

Thanks Liz

[Covey]

You can buy them ready treated, or buy an untreated one and do it yourself.

The normal bug killer is Prometherin or another product you can use is Deet (USA only I think)

I think that in the USA they do not allow the pre treated bags but in the UK they are widely available.

If you can tell me which country you are in I can send you some links.

[Lizz]

Hi Covey

I am in Australia.

Do you know if they have the same treatment for sleeping bags too?

Thanks for your help

Cheers Liz

[Covey]

I have not seen pre-treated sleeping bags on the market, just the liners. I suspect that treating a full bag would take a heafty dose.

Yoou should be able to buy a bottle of Prometherin to treat a liner, but you have to be carefull in how you soak the bag, and you need to wear rubber glove whilst doing it.

Try Googling "Treated sleeping bag liners"

[Lizz]

Great thank you.

I am going to Spain - September to early October - do you really thinking that I could go without a sleeping bag?

Cheers Liz

[Covey]

I have done two trips down the Camino Frances in Sept/Oct and one in July/August.

I just carry a sleeping bag liner and a set of long johns for sleeping in. The long johns are 100% cotton and the top is long sleeve. This means I have something warm to sleep in and on the odd occasion I have felt a little chilly (at the top of El Cebreiro) I put on my lightweight fleece as well. Snug as the proverbial bug!!

My thinking is that if the weather turned really cold in October, I can wear the long johns under my trousers which are lightweight summer ones.

The trick with the Camino is to carry kit which is multi purpose. The Camino is not a fashion parade, and most of us look as though we shopped in some charity shop, so the general idea is to carry as little kit as possible, but make sure what you do carry covers a variety of uses.

The long johns are really for sleeping in, but doubles up as a base layer if it gets really cold during the day. The lightweight fleece (Craghopper) is for wearing in the evenings and for the first half hour walking in the morning. If cold at night I sleep in it. I walk in Salomon boots, but carry a pair of Teva Terra Trail sandals for wearing in the evening and in the shower. The Teva are excellent walking sandals and I have walked a 30km day in them with no problems, so they act as a backup to my boots.

If your hands get cold, pull on a spare pair of socks over your hands!!

[Lizz]

Thanks Covey. Great tips.
Much appreciated.
Liz

[Covey]

Forgot to mention the sarong. Men tend not to carry them, and I would sleep a long way from one who did!! but I have often come across many ladies who do.

Being just a long piece of usually lightweight material they are a useful "modesty" device when wandering off to the showers, doubles up as a shower curtain if one is missing, acts as a sheet on the bunk, and can be used as a headscarf/wrap (a la Arabian headdress )to keep the sun off your head and the back of your neck when it is very hot in the afternoon.

I use an Arab kaffiyeh head cloth (usually carry two!) which I drape over my head when the sun is really strong to protect my head and neck, and being cotton, it acts as a towel to absorb sweat. At night I wrap it around my fleece to act as a pillow.

Enjoy

[sunflower]

I was just reading all the posts to this thread and was wondering if we need hiking shoes? or will a good pair of sneaker do?

[Covey]

You will see people walking in all sorts of different footwear ranging from boots you could conquer Everest with, to a simple pair of tennis shoes.

Whatever you wear they must be sound, strong, well fitting and well broken in. If you have a pair of trainers which fit the above then take them.

The main problems with footwear are heat and wet. From July to September the Camino is generally hot to very hot and your feet sweat. To avoid blisters you need footwear which breathes and socks which pass the moisture away from your feet. The ability to move the moisture is called "wicking" so High Wick socks and shirts are good. Pure cotton socks and shirts are very low wick garments and retain the moisture which is bad.

A lot of boots and shoes now have Gortex panels to allow the movement of moisture away from the skin, but take a small brush to get rid of the dust which will block the panels.

If you are walking in April to June and Oct onwards, then you need to worry about the waterproofing of the footwear, and mud. In places the track can get very muddy when wet and shoes in mud ain't much fun, so boots are probably better.

As you are going to walk 800kms for a full camino, make sure that the footwear is sound and all the stitching is OK. Take a spare pair of laces!

In addition to your main walking boots/shoes you need a pair of sandals or flip flops to wear in the evenings, and IN THE SHOWER. The showers generally have a high throughput of assorted bodies, many with shredded feet, blisters etc etc. If you want to stand in an unclean shower tray that is up to you, but my trail sandals are good for showers and the web straps dry out in 15 minutes.