Camino Countdown

[mammalama]

Greetings friends, fellow seekers and Camino enthusiasts...
I have officially begun counting down to my departure date on the 29th of June. My partner and I are completing the Camino together. We're a gay couple (of twenty years) who have spent our lives traveling, chasing miracles and seeking spiritual truth and soul enrichment that resonnates in our core.

We have been sharing our preparation with friends, family and Camino pilgrims on our blog
All are welcome to stop by, sip some inspiration, share some wisdom, and leave comments. Subscribing is easy too! thanks to many who have left comments, links and e-mailed me with your encouragement, love and knowledge.
Have a great weekend!
Mammalama

[Covey]

People walk the Camino for all sorts of reasons ranging from a wish to find the answers to the problems in life they have encountered, to a need to find Spiritual or Religious enlightenment. I walk the Camino because it is a challenge to push yourself beyond ones comfort zone and perhaps to recapture a little of the adventure of my youth.

The one thing about the Camino and all its Ways, is that people accept others for who they are. Nobody could care less where you come from, your status in life, money, job, or even your sexual orientation. More than one of your posts mention that you are a gay couple. So what! You are both pilgrims on a long journey along with others who may share your ideas and beliefs, or who may be blind, disabled, young or over 80, rich or poor, in a relationship or trying to come to terms with the end of a relationship.

If I could give you just one piece of advice, stay cool, don't push your relationship in the faces of others, and just allow folks to arrive at their own conclusions as to who you are.

The Camino has an amazing habit of bringing people together from all over the world who would never meet in any other environment.

[mammalama]

People walk the Camino for all sorts of reasons ranging from a wish to find the answers to the problems in life they have encountered, to a need to find Spiritual or Religious enlightenment. I walk the Camino because it is a challenge to push yourself beyond ones comfort zone and perhaps to recapture a little of the adventure of my youth.

The one thing about the Camino and all its Ways, is that people accept others for who they are. Nobody could care less where you come from, your status in life, money, job, or even your sexual orientation. More than one of your posts mention that you are a gay couple. So what! You are both pilgrims on a long journey along with others who may share your ideas and beliefs, or who may be blind, disabled, young or over 80, rich or poor, in a relationship or trying to come to terms with the end of a relationship.

If I could give you just one piece of advice, stay cool, don't push your relationship in the faces of others, and just allow folks to arrive at their own conclusions as to who you are.

The Camino has an amazing habit of bringing people together from all over the world who would never meet in any other environment.

Thanks for reading and sharing- true, I do mention I am gay in several posts-for those who aren't, I don't expect an understanding of all the ramifications and implications of that. But for those who are...and you know who you are....I mention it out of pride and I respectfully disagree to your point that people don't care who you are, where you come from or your sexual orientation...I CARE. I want to inspire other gay people who have been alienated by religious organizations to take up the challenge of a pilgrimage..to be who they are without apology or fear...to seek a deep spiritual connection with their higher self and to break down the constraints of intolerance, prejudice and injustice. I want it to be easy for gay people to find my blog and to not have to go underground for support. So, my friend, I will continue to mention that I am gay as I understand how closeted the spiritual community is forced to be and how that has had a tremendous negative impact on the lives and souls of so many outstanding people. I appreciate your comments but will pass on your advice...being gay is a piece of who I am, not the totality and to imply that I would push my relationship in other's faces and that that is somehow "uncool" demonstrates the exact intolerance and deep seeded prejudice I hope to challenge. Peace to you and thank you for your honesty.
Mammalama

[HuskyNerd]

Hi Mammalama ~

Like Covey, I've been curious as to why you are continually mentioning your sexual orientation in each of your posts, as well as why you're pushing your blog so hard. You seem to have the impression that the Camino is a closed-minded, conservative religious trek and that your presence as a gay couple on the Camino is going to send a radical message of sexual freedom. Covey's point, and mine as well, is that people on the Camino simply do not care about your sexual orientation. You are not the first gay couple doing the Camino and, like thousands of gay couples before, you will find yourselves accepted and welcomed. The simple fact is that you will not have unusual obstacles of homophobia to deal with since you will be in contact mostly with culturally attuned, secular Western Europeans, gay and straight, whose lives back home happily include many people just like you. While you may want to think of yourselves as pioneers on the Camino on behalf of your sexual orientation, it's already happening on the Camino every day. So, please don't pass judgment on your fellow pilgrims before even meeting them. I join Covey in hoping you just allow yourself the Camino experience without adding the negative expectations about others.

[mammalama]

Have you actually read anything I've written? Talk about judgement...Firstly, I'm well aware that other gay people have traversed the camino, with gays representing 8%- 10% of the population, odds are that I'm not the first ....I'm far past the radical sexual freedom phase and the suggestion of that is a little insulting. I honor the true gay pioneers that have come before me on the camino and elsewhere, however I acknowledge that few have stepped out and shared it with others..that's why I write. If it's not for you, then don't read it.
By no means have I intended to give the impression that I've already passed judgement or that I expect confrontation. Nor am I heading to the Camino with a rainbow flag to push the gay agenda, so relax. My life experience has been that I haven't had any difficulty gaining respect or acceptance ...on the contrary, as a well traveled, spiritual person who has experienced many cultures around the globe, I know that I will attract the exact people that i most need and vice versa-you get what you give. I respect and honor all individuals, their beliefs and cultures. I post and 'push' my blog with the understanding and experience that gay people have an uphill battle in connecting with their community when it comes to spiritual discovery or matters. There is little positive documentation to give people hope and inspiration from a spiritual perspective or spiritual support. You've jumped to many conclusions because I identify myself up front and I attribute that to a lack of understanding and a disconnect with my intention, my writing and my message. I don't want to judge you and simply paint you with the prejudice paintbrush. Like I said to the other poster, If you are not gay, you'll struggle to understand or identify and I don't hold that against you. Like all other internet users and bloggers, I tag my posts to attract the people I want, it really isn't any deeper than that. Still, I love this type of dialog and exchange.
I appreciate your point of view even though I really don't fit the picture you've painted....not by a long shot.
Enjoy your weekend and thanks for taking the time to share what you feel.
Cheers,
mamma

[Covey]

" If it's not for you, then don't read it"

It is assumed that if you post on an internet forum, then you expect people to read it.

"I know that I will attract the exact people that i most need and vice versa"

I am not sure that the majority of Pilgrims of any belief or persuasion are looking to join anything or anyone! They mostly are seeking answers to the questions in their life and in the peace and quiet the Camino offers, free from all the external influences on their life to date.

"Like all other internet users and bloggers, I tag my posts to attract the people I want"

There is a lot of "I want" and "I need" in your posts. This is distinctly the opposite of what most walk the Way for.

I hope you find what you are looking for, and that the true Spirit of the Camino will guide your footsteps.

[mosesmew]

Please, just,"Be", a Human Being hoping to make the world a better place by being in it! I agree with Covey & HuskyNerd,we really DO NOT need any "Labels"! Blessings for a Wonderful,Joyfilled Camino!!

[HuskyNerd]

Greetings friends, fellow seekers and Camino enthusiasts...
I have officially begun counting down to my departure date on the 29th of June. My partner and I are completing the Camino together. We're a gay couple (of twenty years) who have spent our lives traveling, chasing miracles and seeking spiritual truth and soul enrichment that resonnates in our core.

We have been sharing our preparation with friends, family and Camino pilgrims on our blog
Angels and Longshots
All are welcome to stop by, sip some inspiration, share some wisdom, and leave comments. Subscribing is easy too! thanks to many who have left comments, links and e-mailed me with your encouragement, love and knowledge.
Have a great weekend!
Mammalama

I'm counting this as the 4th post that's publicizing your blog, Sue. It's great that you've begun your count-down, but besides your countdown, being gay and having a blog can we look forward to anything else in your posts? More details about your spiritual perspective and hopes for your Camino might be fun. I've read your blog and am not finding that there. Am hungry for spirit. Please feed.

[mammalama]

Wow, you either have some serious issues with gay people or perhaps it's just people who disagree and challenge you, I'm no psychiatrist so I'll leave that to the professionals. I love how you claim to have all this knowledge of why people walk etc and I'm astounded at how you have some inner wisdom on other's thoughts and perspectives- Don't even get me started on how judgemental and intolerant you appear to be toward your fellow man/woman. For someone who has walked the Camino as many times as you boast, I would think you shouldn't have much difficulty in the concept of live and let live at this point, but hey, it's your path and I respect that. However, your truth is shining brightly beyond that very thin veil your hiding behind, my friend.
Listen, once again you misunderstood. I tag my posts so that people interested in the tag will find it easier, if that offends you OR anyone else, I'm sorry...if you saw the word "Gay" why did you click on it? Just leave it for those who have an open mind and heart or for those who ARE gay...why is that so difficult for you? Why do you find my posts so threatening? Looks like I struck a nerve with you & maybe a long walk would do you some good to figure out why you feel a need to attack. I'll continue to post updates to my blog and link them here AND I'll continue to tag with the word "GAY" that way, you can easily avoid whatever hidden message you're having such a hard time digesting. Like I said, if it's not for you, don't read it. I have some advice in return for all your unsolicited insight, move on already and stop pretending be the collective voice of every other pilgrim....Call a friend for Pete's sake and work it out.
Peace to you and take time to celebrate the day!
Mamma
"Common are the threads which bind the hearts of seekers..." -Angels and Longshots

[mammalama]

Absoutely, Huskey- If you're looking for a traditional, christian, spiritual perspective, then my blog is not going to be it for you. There are some posts there which examine alternative spiritual thought, aspirations, hopes and reflections. "You have to break an egg to make scrambled sense", "walking in the rain while volcano's errupt" and "Intent" are all posts which share spiritual aspects and I hardly mention the word "gay" at all
I could easily cut and paste each post here, but it is much easier to just share the link. Really, the blog started out for friends and family who encouraged me to share and I thought this would be a logical place to include in that sharing aspect. I've received numerous e-mails from visitors and members to this site that are very uplifting, encouraging and heartwarming, so I'm not sure why the sudden wave of hysteria. I'm not trying to promote or publicize my blog, just trying to engage, exchange and document life as it happens to occur in my corner of the universe. I appreciate your comment and hope you find the spiritual nourishment you seek. Namaste...
Mamma

[HuskyNerd]

Volcanoes. No apostrophe.

Please lighten up on Covey. He's much loved in these pages and has helped countless pilgrims. Few better understand the Camino and since all authentic spiritualities begin with deep listening I humbly recommend a thoughtful and appreciative rereading of Covey's sage advice.

[Covey]

" I'll continue to post updates to my blog and link them here AND I'll continue to tag with the word "GAY" that way, you can easily avoid whatever hidden message you're having such a hard time digesting."

One of the delights of being a Moderator (or even a Super Moderator) is that I read every post to ensure that it conforms with the aims of the Forum, does not include offensive language, or advertisements for anything other than items I deem useful to all pilgrims, and that posts are not used as a backdoor for adverts of a sexual nature inviting viewers to see attractive ladies (or otherwise!) in very little or no clothing.

I try and ensure that those posting for the first time get a speedy response to their query, even though it might mean repeating advice I, or others, have given just a couple of weeks ago. Many who post for the first time are nervous because some Forums can be very intimidating and somewhat dismissive of those who ask simple basic questions.

I always remember that before my first trip on the Camino from Sarria to Santiago, I did not know what a Pilgrim Passport was, or where to get it and even why I needed one, and that is the same for most aspiring Pilgrims.

Pilgrims are usually more concerned with helping others than worrying about themselves. Unlike daily life outside the Camino where often people are more worried about networking and having friends(so called!) who might be in positions of influence who can help them, pilgrims will drop everything to help a fellow pilgrim who is in trouble, irrespective of nationality, creed, sexual orientation, wealth or sex, and having helped, might never see them again.

" Like I said, if it's not for you, don't read it."

Pilgrims also do not usually have Attitude, and those who do, usually plough a lonely furrow.

Your posts seem to have become more a platform for your personal views on sexuality, than any relevant information or enquiries regarding the Camino and all its Ways.

Unless you remove the links to your Blogs and dial back the Gay references from any further replies or posts I will remove all your existing posts and ban you from the Forum.

[HuskyNerd]

Wise choice. Thank you, Covey.

[Tanya Yaksich]

Hi Mammamala,
I have read Angels and Longshots, had a chuckle at some humerous comments, and i read everything on this forum wether it pertains to my itinerary or not.
Wether you're straight or gay, who cares. When people meet you ,they will decide wether you like each other or not. HOWEVER please remember you are on a Catholic religious Pilgrimage route in a Holy Year.Quite a few Pilgrims will be strong practicing catholics, and their faith is against same sex relationships. Should i meet you en route, i would probably have a chat and ask how your Kiwi mate is doing. If my Sister was with me, she would lecture me, or even worse try and lecture you. I live and let live, but i would not let anyone offend my Sister on this special pilgrimage for her. So by all means enjoy your pilgrimage but do remember where it all started and by whom.
Cheers tanya

[Covey]

I had forgotten the implications of this being a Holy Year, which according to the statistics published by the Santiago Pilgrim Office, confirms that a far higher percentage of Spanish pilgrims are walking the Ways this year than normal. In May 2009, foreign nationals accounted for 65% of pilgrims completing their Camino, whereas in May 2010 Spanish pilgrims accounted for 60% of Compostella issued.

Spain is a country of many contrasts. In the south where tourists congregate, the Spanish are quite liberal and almost anything goes, but in the north they are far more conservative and traditional. Behaviour which in the tourist areas is tolerated, will cause great offence in the rural north.

I have seen young female pilgrims ordered out of a church because their dress code was considered immodest and therefore offensive to the local worshippers.

Pilgrims of whatever age, sex or nationality, need to remember that we are guests in Spain and that our Camino should not offend our hosts in any way.

[mammalama]

Wow, "dial back the gay references or I'll remove you"....progressive choice, were you divinely guided in that response? Must be amazing to be so super powerful. Let's remove everything we don't agree with, can't handle, or fear, that will certainly help your spiritual evolution and the betterment of humanity.

[mammalama]

Hi Tanya,
Thanks for reading and for you views...I too, would chat with you and your sister if I met you on the road! Having grown up in a family heavily steeped in catholic ritual and beliefs, I'm familar with their stance on same sex marriage, women, birth control, sin etc. etc. I've been through every lecture you can imagine and as an active, public adovocate on civil rights, I've had people threaten me, spit on me, damage my property and say dispicable things over the course of my life. However, it is the people who've sent letters of support, words of thanks and who look beyond labels that keep me in the fight. Their numbers and sentiments far outweigh the ignorance of the latter . This pilgrimage is special for everyone who makes the journey,...before Catholics it was the Celts who claimed the road as theirs. In Present times the Camino attracts seekers of all beliefs and it is in the spirit of seeking that we are called to respect and honor the path of others.. I look forward to engaging, sharing and helping those I encounter in honor of their personal committment to seek a deeper relationship with themselves and God. That desire, is the common denominator of us all....the rest is just a distraction holding us back from being all we are meant to be.
I hope your sister has a wonderful experience. Thank you for your response.
Kia Kaha-
mamma
I have read Angels and Longshots, had a chuckle at some humerous comments, and i read everything on this forum wether it pertains to my itinerary or not.
Wether you're straight or gay, who cares. When people meet you ,they will decide wether you like each other or not. HOWEVER please remember you are on a Catholic religious Pilgrimage route in a Holy Year.Quite a few Pilgrims will be strong practicing catholics, and their faith is against same sex relationships. Should i meet you en route, i would probably have a chat and ask how your Kiwi mate is doing. If my Sister was with me, she would lecture me, or even worse try and lecture you. I live and let live, but i would not let anyone offend my Sister on this special pilgrimage for her. So by all means enjoy your pilgrimage but do remember where it all started and by whom.
Cheers tanya[/QUOTE]

[Covey]

"....progressive choice, were you divinely guided in that response?"

I will go with the progressive choice option, which is why you can still continue to post. ( subject to following the guidelines)

[HuskyNerd]

(Sigh.)

Sue, you allude to something that has intrigued me for some time -- the pre-Catholic origins of the Camino. You mention not only pre-Catholic, but pre-Celtic. Could you give more info on that? I've hit dead ends in research on this topic, in which most authorities seem to agree that the pre-Catholic origins have no actual historical record to back them up. Have you come across some hard evidence on this? If so, please share. This is an important historical point and one in which evidence is scarce. I can imagine after retirement doing a complete historical study of the Camino and publishing the results.

Also, thanks for posting twice without either time publicizing your blog. That feels like progress! I am disappointed in your ongoing antipathy toward Covey, though, mostly because I'm nervous about people who claim spiritual maturity, but are quick to be angry and insulting to people who disagree. That seems to deny the validity of their spiritual maturity, which in turn puts all people who seek Spirit in a bad light. (See Mariana Caplan, Ph.D.: 10 Spiritually Transmitted Diseases ) People like you and I, who may quibble about theological particulars, are still united in a quest for meaning beyond materialism. I believe we (including Covey) share a desire for freedom, joy, transcendence and the Divine. If that is also true for you I hope you will give Covey a break and recognize him for the treasure he is.

[Tanya Yaksich]

Hi Sue,
Thanks for your reply. I was not aware the Celts had claimed that road previously. I had always believed the Catholic Pilgrims were the instigators of the Pilgrimage routes to Santiago. I believe the Norte road came into being as a safer route due to the invasion and spreading out of the Moors.
I hope we all enjoy a great and spiritual Camino. Buen Camino Tanya